In the second instalment of JOE’s exclusive four-part interview with Gary Lineker, we discuss the progress that has been made in countering prejudice in football, and what else can be done to make the game enjoyable for all…
JOE: Do you think enough is being done to address prejudice in football?
GL: I think football actually does quite well, generally. There’s a wonderful mixture of nationalities in this country, all sorts of different ethnic groups.
In terms of [how that’s represented] on the field I think it’s pretty good, and in terms of racial abuse of footballers I think we’re far better than pretty much everywhere else. But it’s not perfect and you’ve got to keep battling on.
I think you’re always going to get the occasional incident, but by and large I don’t think footballers sit in a dressing and think: “He’s black, he’s mixed race, he’s white.” I think they go: “He’s a really good player, he’s alright, he’s a good defender” – it was like that in my day. And it’s significantly better than it was in my day.
I walked on a plane with John Barnes once and he was getting abuse from the England fans for being black. They were saying: “You’re not English, you shouldn’t be in this team.” It was horrific.
There used to be bananas thrown on to the pitch, and all sorts of things like that. Thank heavens it’s moved on massively since then. The next step is getting more black players into the management side and the running of the game and administration.
Do you think that’s an imminent development, perhaps with the introduction of the Rooney Rule?
I think that will come in time but at the moment the people deciding who gets those jobs are pretty much all middle-to-old age, very rich, very white people who possibly have a certain mentality.
You can’t force them to pick someone to change it, it’s quite a difficult thing to do. You can force them to consider in a way, but ultimately they’ll make the decision.
It may help, but if you say you’ve got to interview him, him, him and him, and every time they went with the white guy, then does that actually make it look worse?
So I don’t know. I think it’s worth looking at, but just forcing someone to look at someone because they’re told to will probably push them the other way.
But I think what we’re seeing is the generation that comes through will have grown up in a different time.
So you look at some of younger people in charge of football clubs like Steve Parish [at Crystal Palace]; people like that who don’t think that way at all.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink has done really well at Burton, and we need that kind of thing to happen. I think things will change but it will be gradual because it’s person by person.
We’ve got a way to go, but we’ve got a way to go in general life. It beggars belief – we’re all human-beings, it’s just ridiculous.
What are your views on the political focus on immigration and, in some cases, the demonization of immigrants?
I’ve been fairly public on Twitter about things like that. The immigrant thing is not an issue in this country. They add to this country more than anything else.
There’s no question about that, both economically and they bring other things as well. Any sensible right-minded person would see that.
There’s so many brilliant things that have been brought to this country. But again it’s a middle-aged mentality: “It wasn’t like that when I was young, I don’t like things to be different.”
I’m not making excuses for them, I’m just trying to understand why you would think that way.
I think it’s a generational thing to a degree. Look at the new generation, they don’t have that same mentality. From other areas their parents might force it upon them, as with all things in life – mostly the parents are to blame.
